THOMAS FOS

PHOTOGRAPHY MARCO VAN RIJT

INTERVIEW MERIEKE MERTS

Talking to Danish artist Thomas Poulsen (FOS) is as vast and expansive as his body of work. Conversations twist and turn, and topics are turned upside down and inside out. It’s not just objects and art that Thomas unpacks, but facets of conversation, nuances in nostalgia and moments of reflection.

On a FaceTime call we talk about loneliness in the digital age, the interplay between design and social engagement, connecting objects and communities, and exploring the concept of justice through pizza.

So first I would like to talk about the concept of social design, which is a big part of your work, and something I find very moving because of its emphasis on community and human involvement. How would you describe social design to someone who isn’t familiar with the term?

Well, the term was something I worked on in the ‘90s, when a lot of design themes, specifically the digital social realm that anchored the minds of public discourse, were around intimacy and the individual. But now, with social media, there has been an evolution for young people. All these things are a material force that somehow bypassed the physical elements that normally were a part of this development, or could be a part of this discourse.

So maybe from being interested in how the different objects we produce create, formulate an atmosphere, formulate a space for interaction, maybe one would now talk about the importance of objects rather than seeing what they do, because we have this dense apparatus, which is our different senses. They resonate since they are built for a physical environment. Part of our understanding of the world is developed through the resonance of our senses between these objects that we place in the public space, in the intimate space, in all different spaces. So I don't know if that's correct, but one could imagine when we hear about the concerning feelings a younger generation has about themselves and how to develop to become a human being in a world, that by being fed one sense, which is the fingertip and the eye,rather than the whole body, maybe it could also be part of why we're seeing this increase in loneliness, for instance.

I think it's a global trend and it's something that happens in more than one country so it must be the digital. So that's a really long answer but I guess that social design is too broad of a theme. I would say for me, social design is the connection between the object and a group of people. So that's the fundamentals. But I feel it was important to explain the larger history of it, it's a little like a funnel. So maybe you start here and then it is very broad. What does it mean? Maybe I have to find a different term, as it all evolves.

It's an interesting thing that we are more connected than ever before and lonelier than ever before.When it comes to audience participation, which of course is a big part of your work, have any reactions to your work in your career really surprised you or moved you?

No, not really. I mean…

Do you always kind of foresee what will happen?

The projects are extraordinarily open, so whatever is being accumulated from the work and, of course, from making many of these different types of social platforms, meaning that either in a public space, or in a museum in a gallery, you would somehow create a spacewithin a space. You would create a place that has the same qualities that other places have, but since we are experiencing them through the perspective of art, we also interact a little differently in it. And just to add a comment, a tale, a question. It's also that sociality is complicated, because it constantly pushes your own boundaries. It's easier to align with your boundaries rather than being in a place where your identity is being pushed or asked for something specific.And now, of course, obviously, with the lack of this enforcement, suddenly the public space becomes something else. Specifically, if you have high moral standards of what a person should be in a public realm, for instance, in Japan, maybe that would be a consequence of something like that.

Moving on to your current space, you’re in Venice at the moment. Does it inform your mental space, your work, the lack of cars, the water, everything that Venice is? Why did you choose it as your base?

First of all, my wife spent her childhood here and they have a family here. So after the pandemic, it was difficult. Well, you felt that you could work anywhere. We just thought, why not try this? This is the third year we're here, but my studio is in Copenhagen, that is where my work is. In Venice you’re just a spectator of something beautiful. But it's not a space where you can somehow find artistic solutions because it's a very self-contained, finished space.That means that the way the city is built creates the most amazing small public spaces that are used a lot, of course, because the houses are quite dark. So I feel that there are combinations of tiny spaces and architecture where when it's alive and active, it's a moving image. I find that the originality of architecture and public life fit wonderfully in Italy. Even though there are fewer public morals here compared to Denmark.

Really?

Yes. Not that they are peeing on the street, but it's more that it is a country of individuals. They don't have the same sense of conformity as we have in Denmark, for instance. And Denmark is a consensus-oriented society, so it's easier to manage.

Do you feel like in Copenhagen and Denmark it's more possible to think of new ideas because of this Scandinavian approach design or simply the amount of available space in Denmark?

There are often bridges between artistic thinking, existentialism, and politics. Denmark is very pragmatic. It's a very smart thing to have when you have to run a society.

You really get that feeling when you're in Copenhagen that everything is just functioning. I just want to quickly touch on the various mediums and disciplines that you work across, since it's so broad, from sculpture to performance art. What was the first medium that you ever worked with? Like a starting point?

Painting.

And from there it evolved to?

I guess that when you start as an artist, you start with the obvious. And then you discover other mediums and that's the time where you're testing different materials and formulating, well in my case, formulating some sort of an artistic frame. I work mostly with different things with no specific direction. When I finished the academy I did one of those social platforms where you are working with architecture. It just stops the space, right? Design creates a dynamic and specific function to a space.

And do you have a preferred medium, or are you happy to always be working in a variety as they always kind of inform each other?

Since the tasks are quite different, from anintimate gallery to a full public space, you would lean to certain materials that are bound to genres. For example, you would say “Let's do something in a public space.” All right, then we have to work with architecture. And that is bound to certain typesof materials It’s not so much me who says “Let's work with clay today.” It’s rather that the frame is asking for a specific medium, and then I move into that.

That's very insightful to your process. Can you talk about what you're working on at the moment, like your latest work?

I'm working on a perfume flacon. It's because I worked, what, 10 years ago, with this French fashion brand called Celine, when Phoebe Philo was the Creative Director. Both objects and interior. And then later another brand approached me. It's called B.O.Y.Y. And I've done some of their shops. That is for me a wonderful way of having artistic freedom. Because they're not asking for specifics. There's a knife edge working in these different genres. Who's controlling what?

If I'm involved in design projects,I need to be able to use the design and the art so they can sort of cross-pollinate. So that's one thing for now.

A commissioned work on a hospital has just finished. It was wooden doors that were carved in Bali. Because in Bali you have a high sense of spirituality which is penetrating society. Opposite to Denmark. We know we need a sense of spirituality to heal. If we get sick, we ask God, or we ask higher powers, or we ask an astrologist. It's a human need to somehow move into other genres.

I just finished a project last year called Abogado in Mexico City, which was a public pavilion in a beautiful museum called Anahuacalli. Diego Rivera, Frida Kahlo’s' husband, he designed it for his giant collection of Colombian pre-Hispanic artefacts. There, I made a pavilion, and it was called abogado, which means lawyer, but it could also be an avocado. And inside it, it was a pizza restaurant. Written on the napkins or inside the pizza boxes, would be the Mexican constitution. So you have legal frameworks explained on the napkins, and then you would have different lectures from various lawyers. So here you're combining the legal framework of Mexico and the public space glued together with pizza. It's a different type of food, right? It's the most democratic pizza anywhere in the world

And then my last question, I don't want to keep you. The theme of the issue is time. What would you do if you had an unlimited amount of time?

Move into despair, I guess.

Really?

We have a constructed time. We have a constructed North Pole. But we also have seasons. And I find that more fascinating than having the possibility of having endless time. Because I don't even know how I'm even using my time here.